Rowland,

Questions

Tell us about the formation of John Mark Ministries.

I had been traveled Australia and the world ministering to pastors and church leaders – a position paid for by World Vision, as part of its commitment to Leadership Enhancement – and I became acutely aware that ex-pastors were the one group in the church which was most poorly cared for. So on April Fool’s Day 1991 a few of us began a ‘faith ministry’ targeting this special group. The church searches for lost sheep – but what about lost shepherds? So far as I knew, at that time there were few if any cross-denominational ministries anywhere in the world supporting ex-pastors. And they’re about 50% of all the pastors every denomination ordains! We shoot our wounded, leave them to suffer on the battlefield, and while we honour those who have ‘fallen in battle’ in other wars, no one seems to want to know about these special people. Do you know of any denomination that has a special prayer-ministry for pastors who’ve fallen in the spiritual battle? There are none in Australia. In fact, no denomination here keeps a list of such people – except the Presbyterians (and their list-keeping is not for reasons of pastoral support!). Ex-pastors are an embarrassment to our institutions and to our theology, so we quietly forget them. (The only way I could track down people who’ve left pastoral/parish ministry in most denominations was to compare their Yearbooks from one year to the next, and figure out who was suddenly missing!)

Has your vision or mission changed over time?

My counseling of ‘pastors in transition’ has led me to believe that a major component of their conflict has to do with unresolved childhood issues. Some bristle at this suggestion, but I can only report what I have learned from the stories of hundreds of these people. When a TV/radio program/newspaper asks ‘Why are there so many ex-pastors?’, I now respond: ‘There are thre broad categories of reasons. First, there are 41 discrete answers they give to the question “Why did you leave?” A list of those responses can be found in the questionnaire on our website. ( See http://jmm.org.au/articles/2001.htm ). Second, the _occasion_ of leaving was mostly conflict of some kind – usually with powerful people in the local church. But I think we then have to ask: “What causes those conflicts?” And the broad answer to that question might suggest reasons associated with a mismatch of expectations and reality, but beneath all that is the inability to get along with others because of unfinished business in various people’s lives – the pastors’ and/or the leaders’…

What is your interest-role with John Mark Ministries?

I am the founder/director of John Mark Ministries here in Australia. I work in and from Melbourne, and a colleague works in and from Sydney.

Tell me about your concerns that drives your work with expastors and their families

There are many: first, the neglect of pastoral, friendship, and institutional help for these people. Second, I am an ex-pastor: my last pastorate (as Senior Minister of First Baptist Church, Vancouver, B.C., Canada) lasted nine months before I resigned. So I can understand the deep anger and sadness in leaving a God-initiated calling. Third, it’s an expensive experience – financially for the denomination that trained these people, but more importantly for the pastor and his or her family. They suffer enormously – and usually have no one with whom to share their pain. Often they become disillusioned, not only with the institution of the church, but also with the church’s theology. A significant number don’t attend church for short or long periods – or ever. And many who do attend as ‘laypeople’ do so for the sake of their children. And they can’t express their hurt and anger in many ‘Christian’ contexts: anger is a most misunderstood emotion, and poorly handled by the vast majority of church leaders…

What are some of your findings with respect to your work with expastors and their families?

Many cannot easily find another vocation: the one they left to enter pastoral ministry might not exist any more. There are financial problems – particularly if they do not own their own home. The families suffer from geographical dislocation. The spouses and children often become angry with the church – and this causes issues of loss-of-faith for many. And also, let us not forget, the ruckus which was the occasion of the pastor’s leaving usually cause much pain and division in the churches where they served.

Tell us how you work: that is, the ways you use the internet to conduct your research and support.

I spend a couple of hours a day on-line: putting together a couple of websites – a general one for pastors and church leaders – http://jmm.org.au/ and another for pastors’ wives (another neglected group in the church – http://priscillasfriends.org/ .) Then there is email mentoring and counseling. I also post to many newsgroups (you can track down those posts in Google). We have a pastors/leaders mail-list which goes to over 1,000 people around the world. And so on…

What other things do you do for expastors and their families?

I like to publicize the need for more support for expastors. I do this in all sorts of ways. I hope these communications are helpful and positive, as well as being critical of the institutional church. Fortunately, in Australia, a degree of credibility is associated with all of this as I was – in the 70s and 80s – the senior pastor of our nation’s largest Protestant congregation. So I had everything to lose when I left a happy, thriving church, and experienced a very different sort of church situation on the other side of the world. Frankly, it was like moving from an incubator to a refrigerator – from a church of encouragers, to a situation of another kind!

Rowland, this is a broad overview kind of approach, and just a start.

Feel free Terrence, to send more questions. When you run out I’ll have a few more to suggest to you!

Shalom! Rowland Croucher