Preaching is Primary
Christian Standard Magazine, Reflections Section

An Interview of Dr. Myron J. Taylor by L.D. Campbell

Preaching has always been primary in our churches. Our churches have produced some great preachers, men whose names are synonymous with preaching.

Myron Taylor is one of the great preachers in our brotherhood. He recently retired from a 30-year ministry with the Westwood Hills Christian Church in Los Angeles, California. Mr. Taylor has remained a student of preaching, and continues to teach preaching at Emmanuel School of Religion. He not only knows how to reach preaching, but is so effective in the pulpit that his preaching has been a model to many of us who preach. His passion for preaching has kept him at it for more than 50 years.

Q.&A.

Campbell: When and how did you know preaching was what God wanted you to do?

Taylor: Early in my life, perhaps Junior High School, the thought of being a preacher came to me. It must have been discussed because people began to say, “Myron is going to be a preacher.” It got to be a little tiresome hearing some of the older women say that over and over. Then came graduation from High School, and the big decision had to be made. I never attended Christian camp. At age 18, as I hoed corn in the fields, suddenly I straightened up, threw my hoe as far as I could down the hill, went to the house and told my father I wanted to prepare to be a preacher. My High School had given me excellent training and experience in speech. That decision has lasted me a lifetime–57 years of preaching to date.

Campbell: You’ve had a long a fruitful ministry. As you look back over your long years of preaching, what part has preaching played in your ministry?

Taylor: Preaching has always had a priority in my ministry. Never to the exclusion of worship, education, membership development, evangelism, stewardship, missions, community service, and all that goes with the administration of the church. I have always tried to study consistently, be informed on as many aspects of life as possible, plan my preaching, and in later years have been much aware of the preacher’s three calendars–the Christian Year, the secular holidays and the local church calendar. In all that is required of a minister, preaching has been first with me.

Campbell: Has your preaching changed and your audience changed over the years? Could someone who was at Westwood Hills 29 years ago, tell a difference in your preaching today?

Taylor: Preaching should change as we grow and mature. Thirty years of my preaching is on tape. Once in a while I check an older sermon and it sounds pretty good, but I am sure there is a sense of maturity there. I find it hard to listen to myself on tape –too many things I would like to do better. The later years have seen me following the Christian Year in my preaching, and working to develop a narrative style. The Bible tells a story, and Jesus was a great storyteller. A narrative style is very tempting and very challenging. The audience is always a challenge to any preacher. To my audience in recent years I cannot assume that they know the biblical story. I must tell the story and interpret it.

The fact is, a preacher needs to learn to develop a structure for the sermon to fit the purpose of the sermon. We preach sermons to explain, to convince, to revitalize (experience), and to actuate (motivate). Different structures need to be developed to best serve these specific intents. Much of the modern emphasis in homiletics has to do with structure. This deserves much study. Any structure that is used all the time needs changing.

Campbell: Your preaching has been the model for so many of us! What preachers have influenced you?

Taylor: My list of model preachers may surprise you by the ones included and the ones left out. I have been too busy trying to preach to give preaching the kind of study it deserves. The preachers that have most influenced me are: Historically–John Chrysostom, Frederick W. Robertson, Phillips Brooks, Martin Luther, John Henry Jowett; In my lifetime–James S. Stewart, Leonard Griffith, J. Wallace Hamilton, Arthur John Gossip, Harry Emerson Fosdick, David H.C. Read, Helmut Thielicke, Fred Craddock, Elizabeth Achtemeier, Martin Luther King, Jr. and A. M. Hunter. My list does not seek to include preachers in the Bible. Of course, biblical preachers have been primary in influencing my life and preaching. I have left out many, many good preachers. If you are going to read preachers, read the great ones and the good ones.

Campbell: How do you see the current state of preaching today?

Taylor: There is a lot of good, adequate preaching today. Fred Craddock has had a powerful influence in calling the mainline churches to a more biblical basis for their preaching. Craddock says there are two kinds of preaching Christian Churches will not tolerate–poor preaching and excellent preaching. That leaves too much room for mediocre preaching. Most preaching needs to be better than it is. It could be better if more preachers would plan it, study diligently, prepare carefully, pray over it and deliver it as an oral event of major significance. One enemy of better preaching is the belief that the way we do it is acceptable, and we do not make the effort to improve. Many people judge “good” preaching by its style, rather than its content. Style is important, but not more important than content. Preaching always needs to be better.

Campbell: What do you see as the greatest need in preaching today? What are the greatest needs in people that need to be addressed through preaching?

Taylor: The greatest need of preaching today is to declare the biblical gospel to the culture of our time so that people may find the resources needed for living. The preacher needs to know three things: the gospel of Christ, the world of our day, and how to effectively proclaim the gospel to the people who live in our world today. Many today have a depressed, hollow sense of the futility and meaninglessness of human existence, a sense of personal insignificance, a yearning for security, a frightened awareness of the power of the forces of evil, and a feeling of the need for an absolute for conduct. The Christian message meets all these needs: God’s divine purpose in history addresses the sense of futility and meaninglessness; God’s love speaks to our need of personal significance; God’s providence, though not in any fixed sense, speaks to our insecurity; the cross of Christ assures us of God’s concern over he evil in the world; and the need for guidance in conduct is met not by making the Bible a rule book and preaching sermons full of “oughts”, “musts”, and “shoulds”, but by taking seriously the person of the Holy Spirit, who takes the things of Christ and shows them to all who seek to do God’s will. Such thinking as this has been in the back of all my preaching in the last thirty years.

Campbell: We hear the term “biblical preaching” thrown around a lot, how would you define “biblical preaching?”

Taylor: That is a big question. Biblical preaching is more than repeating the words of the Bible. Biblical preaching does not spend all of its time talking about the Bible, but it talks about what the Bible talks about. Let me give you a definition of expository preaching that has been very helpful to me.

“Expository preaching is an act wherein the living truth of some portion of Holy Scripture, understood in the light of solid exegetical and historical study and made a living reality to the preacher by the Holy Spirit, comes alive to the hearer as he is confronted by God in Christ through the Holy Spirit in judgment and redemption” (The Way To Biblical Preaching, 26).

There are three elements in this definition worthy of our attention: (1) Preaching is not merely a person speaking to other persons; it is an act, an event. It is an act of God. As P.T. Forsyth said: “A true sermon is a real deed.” Preaching not only says something, it does something. Preaching should be based on the Bible that is the unique record of God’s unique deed of redemption in Christ–the gospel. (2) The substance of preaching drawn from the scriptures, is to be found by careful study in the light of the best methods of historical and exegetical research, but this process must be made alive by the Holy Spirit who desires to speak now through the ancient witnesses. (3) The end of preaching is that the sermon be transformed from a human conversation between preacher and people into a divine encounter between God and both preacher and people. Such a concept of expository preaching is according to substance rather than form. Preachers are free to use a variety of forms, but never violate the substance that is rooted in scripture. Preaching is not to merely convey information, but to accomplish transformation.

Campbell: Down through the years the greatest preachers have been great pastors, how do the two affect each other?

Taylor: Phillips Brooks in his famous Yale Lectures on Preaching, delivered in 1877, said: “The work of the preacher and pastor really belong together, and ought not to be separated. . . . The preacher, who is not a pastor, grows remote. The pastor, who is not a preacher, grows petty . . . Be both; for you cannot really be one unless you also are the other” (Lectures on Preaching, 75-77). Preach to the needs of the age in which we live, and preach to the needs of people. Sometimes you can start with the text and move to the needs of people. At other times you can begin with the needs of people and lead them to the text. People have deep needs in their lives, some of them are desperate, and the gospel speaks to those needs. People need inspiration as well as information. Look out upon your people and realize there is a need in every pew.

Campbell: How much has the length of your ministry at Westwood Hills related to the effectiveness of your ministry? What are the strengths and weaknesses of a long ministry?

Taylor: My ministry at Westwood Hills was thirty years to the day. If I had been here only five years it would have been useless. There were problems we had to face which required patience and wisdom and prayer. Being in a University community we have had to live with mobility. We have had six or eight different congregations over the years. That placed special demands upon our priorities. Every Sunday we had to try to deliver because next Sunday they may not be here. But over the years we lived to see many who said their experience at Westwood made the difference in their lives. A young female doctoral student from Jordan said the one thing she would miss most when she returned home was this church. A long ministry can sag, slow down, and lose its vision. But if you can keep going, keep alive, it is worth all the effort. You see many changes, but the gospel speaks to all of them. Keep alive! Keep studying! Keep relevant! Don’t fossilize!

Campbell: What changes have you seen in our churches and where do you see the churches of the Restoration Movement going?

Taylor: I truly do not know. There is a lot of confusion. I have come to think of our Christian Churches as a movement within the church pleading and working for the unity of all Christians upon the basis of the biblical gospel for the sake of the mission of the church in the world. Where I preach that has made sense to many people most of whom had never heard of the Christian Church. Let me say a word about preaching in “our” churches. In the early days some of our preachers argued in their sermons. They attacked others. We have learned to preach more positively. We are learning that to bear witness to the biblical gospel is the way to go. Sometimes we get turned backward in our thinking. The hope for this movement lies in the future. We need to remember that the Holy Spirit is God in the present tense leading Christ’s people forward to become what God intends his people to be. I believe in the principles I have stated with all of my heart, and have tried to do what I could to put them into practice. Our practice has not been as good as our preaching. We need to pray for leadership to go before us into the future.

Campbell: The new wave in preaching today is “narrative” or “story telling” and we are told that the old “three-points-and-a- poem” style is out. Speak to the strengths and weakness of each.

Taylor: This is an important question for preaching in our time. The experts in communication say he world has experienced three definite periods in communication. The fist was the oral-aural era. The second was the creation of an alphabet, writing, and print. The third is the electronic era, which is now coming to birth. We live on the boundary between the print era and the electronic era—a time of major change. The question is, what is the most effective way to communicate the gospel in this era. Some experts say we learned to think in ideas in the print era, but today a better way would be to think in stories. In the beginning the Christian faith did not need print and writing in order to communicate its message. How did they do it? They told stories. The old method of “three points and a poem” (caricature) has been used by many effectively. A good preacher will learn to use many different methods of communication. In fact, I think the method should be dictated by the purpose of the sermon. A sermon to explain, to convince, to experience, to actuate should each have a separate structure. But storytelling or narrative is a good way to preach. Jesus is out prime example. Narrative preaching doesn’t mean telling stories. Our stories should not get in the way of the biblical story. Narrative cannot save us from bad theology or undisciplined study of the text. A skillful preacher can tuck one’s point inside the story, rather than using stories to illustrate the point. This subject is worth more study.

Campbell: Today we are preaching to the secular mind, how do we begin to do it?

Taylor: If we are to preach to the secular mind we must first of all seek to understand it. The preacher needs to know the gospel, but one must also understand the age in which one lives. A secular culture shuts out God. There is plenty of that, but there is more. Lesslie Newbigin says the West has become a pagan society. The difference is that a pagan society will worship almost anything—”there are gods many and lords many.” That means preaching today must find a way to make Jesus Christ relevant to the needs o a pagan culture. Life without Christ grows stale and dull. We must make Christ alive and vibrant and able to fill the gap in these pagan lives. It isn’t a matter of making Christ fit into the culture of our time, but a matter of confronting our culture with the fact of our risen Lord. The church must shun like the plague the tendency to withdraw from the culture into an irrelevant, empty enclave. We must be “in the world, but not of it.” James Cox has said, “Preaching must be as old as the truth it proclaims and as modern as the day it is done.”

Campbell: How do you think our bible colleges and graduate schools are doing in preparing young ministers for preaching? What changes would you make in the way preachers are trained?

Taylor: I do not want to be critical of the work done for the church by the Bible Colleges. I am a product of a Bible College. Some of them have done excellent work, have improved themselves, and achieved accreditation by responsible accrediting associations. Some have turned backward and refused to accept advances in biblical studies, for instance. One of the most frequent problems, as I see it, is teaching preachers to quote scripture without considering interpretation—giving thought to the literary, historical, theological, cultural background. Lacking this we face a series of problems that can hinder the church, such as, the place of women in the church, and the importance of worship.

I would like to see all of our ministers aim for a graduate school education. The greatest hindrance to a better-educated ministry is the local church. Congregations should set educational standards for their ministers. This is not meant as a put-down for those who have not or could not obtain a graduate education. Graduate education makes some ministers proud and arrogant, but it can also make many others more effective servants of Christ and the Church. We must always be seeking greater excellence for our Lord.

Campbell: How much influence has the media had on preaching?

Taylor: The media has had a powerful effect on our culture and on preaching. Television adds the dimension of sight to communication. It shrinks our world until what happens anywhere happens everywhere. We go places we could never see otherwise, and we see things we could see in no other way. We share events from all around the world—the wonders of nature, historical events, news, educational programs, sports, discussion of political, and social, and moral issues. John Stott discusses the effects of television on our culture: “To sum up, physical laziness, intellectual flabbiness, emotional exhaustion, psychological confusion and moral disorientation: all these are increased by lengthy exposure to television and children are the ones who suffer most harm” (Between Two Worlds, p. 74).

We can no longer assume people want to listen to sermons, or are capable of listening. They can switch off sermons like they switch off commercials. Whatever is dull, drab, off the cuff, slow or monotonous, or always the same cannot long compete in an age of TV. We are challenged to make sermons attractive through relevance, variety, color, illustrations, humor and fast flowing movement. The preacher needs a variety of methods to preach the whole gospel today.

Campbell: One of the major areas of concern today is the style of worship. What do you think of some of the more current trends in worship and how do they affect preaching?

Taylor: Effective preaching takes place in the context of worship—Jesus’ sermon at Nazareth should teach us that. In my ministry two goals have always been there–order and ardor. Either one alone is not difficult, but the difficulty is achieving both. A lot of worship today appears to me to be a routine following of the pattern of evangelistic meetings—several hymns, prayer, special music, sermon, communion hymn, communion and offering. Others seeking more ardor are following the charismatic form of praise service. No doubt worship needs much attention and more spirit. But how do we achieve it? It is easy to slip into the entertainment mode. I have always felt that God is worthy of the best that we can offer him. Worship is not for the congregation, but for God. It is not what we get, but what we have to offer. We need worship that is God-centered with a sense of the contemporary that will allow it to grip the minds and hearts of people today. Worship today needs a lot of thought and attention.

Campbell: How should the preacher and the congregation measure the effectiveness of preaching?

Taylor: Preaching today should be measured by its ability to present the whole gospel and make it speak to the needs of people, by addressing the whole person and by speaking to many different ages, backgrounds and conditions. One good way to plan our preaching today is to learn how to follow the Christian year from Advent through Pentecost at least. That helps keep us focused on the heart of the gospel. The test of the sermon is, does it mediate God and does it transform the human heart. Probably the greatest need today is a sense of the divine presence in our worship and in our preaching. We know about God, but do we ever meet him.

Campbell: What books would you recommend to preachers that would help deepen their commitment to preaching?

Taylor: Preachers need to build a major section in their library on Preaching. Included should be the old volumes that have blessed many, and the newer works that challenge us to meet the demands of today. Someone once said to me that for every new book you read you should read three old ones that have stood the test of time. Preachers should read: P.T. Forsyth, Positive preaching and the Modern Mind; H. H. Farmer, The Servant of the Word; James S. Stewart, Heralds of God, and A Faith to Proclaim; Fred Craddock, As One Without Authority and Preaching; Thomas Long, The Witness of Preaching; Dwight Stevenson, Disciple Preaching in the First Generation. I must stop here, but the list could go on and on. I have 570 volumes (not including sermon books) in the preaching section of my library.

Campbell: How much study is adequate for the challenge of preaching today?

Taylor: To be a preacher of the gospel one must understand that it requires a lifetime of study. After a person leaves school one of three things will happen: Either a person will change churches and repeat the five years’ preaching one has already done–which is the open road to mediocrity; or, one will read other person’s sermons and start using them–the intellectual sleeping pill of the ministry; or, one will knuckle down to a regular, steady program of reading and serious study, to prepare for that indefinite future that now is opening really quite brilliantly since integrity and humility has come upon the young preacher. If a physician without study is stale in five years and in ten years a fraud, what do we call a preacher that does not study? One should be reading a solid book of textbook quality all of the time. Carry a book in your pocket. Put a book beside your bed with a good lamp stand. Take a book to the Dentist, Doctor, or Lawyer. Get up early and get to work. Read biblical studies, preaching books, theology, and pastoral care volumes. Keep regular study hours. Read good newspapers, magazines, and journals. Learn to use small units of time. Some of my best ideas came when I had but five minutes to read. Build a solid substantial library. You may not be scholar, but you must always be a student. No one is smart enough to preach without study.

Campbell: Your love for preaching has been so evident and contagious, why do you love preaching so much?

Taylor: John Stott begins and ends his book on preaching with these words: “Preaching is indispensable to Christianity” (Between Two Worlds, 15, 338). Without preaching there can be no authentic Christianity. Preaching is essentially the telling and interpreting of the story of what God has done for us in Jesus Christ. No telling of the story—no Christianity. We always stand within one generation of extinction. William Willimon has written: “There is no church where the name is not named, the story is not told, the word is not spoken” (Integrative Preaching, 13). The church lives by the gospel. When the gospel is not preached the church is deformed or dies. I don’t see how one could have a greater vocation than a preacher. Of course, any person, in any vocation, can become a teller of the story.

Campbell: Thousands of church members will read this interview, what would you say to them?

Taylor: You need to learn more about what it means to worship, how to study the scriptures so as to be clear about the Christian gospel, how to intelligently listen to a sermon, and how to translate into life what you hear. In our study of preaching we need to give much more attention to the listeners. The process by which we arrive at something to say must be distinguished from the process of determining how to say it. How the preacher feels about the congregation makes a difference in the sermon. How the congregation feels about the preacher makes a difference in how the sermon is received. It would be very helpful if the pulpit and the pew could share a common view on the meaning of life. That is not always the case today. Ministerial education and university education do not necessarily give a common viewpoint. Both preacher and congregation need to be aware of this tension

Campbell: What would you say to preachers who are struggling to preach in our culture?

Taylor: Learn all you can about the gospel. Merely quoting the Bible is not enough. Don’t spend all of your time talking about the Bible, but talk about what the bible talks about, which is the gospel–the good news of what God has done for us in the person of Jesus Christ. Generally speaking, in our Christian Churches preachers know more about the Bible and the gospel than they do about the culture in which they live. Read, study, think about the world around us and the particular culture of our time. What does it mean to live in a pagan culture? What do we say to the hollow sense of futility and meaninglessness of our time, the sense of personal insignificance, the yearning for security, the awareness of what can only be called the forces of evil and unreason at work in human history, and the need for some kind of moral guide for human conduct? Being negative is not enough. One area that needs attention in our culture is the relationship of faith and science. The study of the culture needs major attention. Then, we must consider how to witness to the Christian gospel effectively in a culture like this. The preacher needs to know the gospel, the world, and how to bring the gospel to the world.

Campbell: What counsel would you give young preachers who are just beginning to preach?

Taylor: Make sure of your commitment to Christ. Get the best education you can–at least a Master of Divinity, but get a Doctor of Divinity or Ph.D., if possible. Don’t fall for this anti-intellectual stuff. Learn to be a good student. Build a broad-based library. Discipline yourself–be a worker. Learn to think. Read widely. Write your sermons. Do not read them, but learn how to deliver them effectively. Develop an oral style of writing. Grow up–become a mature person–a real person. Give careful thought to the one you marry. Learn to love people. Learn to preach the gospel to the needs of people. I can’t think of a better way to live.

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